I have a feeling that you are going to condemn me for doing this , but I am having my full-blown "white wedding" in the US a year after being married in a civil ceremony in Germany.
Why is this such a breech of etiquette? I am just curious about this, because this is the first time I have heard that what I am doing is "wrong".
BTW, I know of a lot of people who are married to foreigners (mine is Swiss/German) who have had 2 full weddings in the two countries involved. (I have lived abroad for over 9 years)
In Germany, EVERYONE who wishes to have a religious wedding MUST have a civil wedding BEFORE because a religious ceremony is not recognized as legal. Therefore, everyone has 2 ceremonies if they want a church wedding but only the civil wedding is recognized. Sometimes the 2 ceremonies are only a few days apart, but sometimes they are months or years apart. They don't even bat an eyelash at this!
My family and friends here in the US have asked us when we are having the wedding here and are excited to see me get married. To them, this is "their" wedding, because it was impossible for them to come to Germany. I haven't had any vibes that anything is amiss in their minds (I am a teacher/trainer and am good at reading people).
Everything that has been planned is exactly as I have dreamt my wedding to be--the white dress, bridesmaids, reception, etc. I didn't have this in Germany.
I am now in the US, my Mann is in Germany, and we are planning our move to Australia at the beginning of the year. It is there that we plan to finally set up house together permanently.
Again, I am just curious why is it such poor manners, and if I should be prepared for any backlash.
Thanks!
Etiquette Now
WEDDING ETIQUETTE EXPERT
Nov 25, 2006, 4:03 PM
Post #2 of 10
(995 views)
Re: [crm923] Civil ceremony in Germany, religious in USA
[In reply to]
Dear Prepare for the Backlash,
The reason it is frown upon here is that to have more than one wedding is viewed as creating more than one gift giving situation for yourself. Plus, it is often viewed as creating a situation where the 'wife' can dress up and behave as a bride--a princess. I can't even tell you how many guests of these events inform me how #@#% they feel about it. Not one has been pleased. I wouldn't want that stigma placed on anyone.
The law you are talking about in Germany is also followed in other countries. But, that is not what is done here. Plus, care must be taken, even in those countries, to ensure that weddings appear proper.
What is viewed positively here and most often done is hosting a reception after the wedding abroad or after any type of destination wedding. Many times the couple will have more than one to accommodate all who cannot attend the wedding or other reception. These can be very special, even showing a slide show or video of the wedding.
Some couples may even host a vow renewal, which is different from a wedding.
The bottom line is that if it is appropriate to have two weddings, then why would it not be appropriate to host three, or four, or five? When you change the 'rules' to accommodate a particular situation, then a new 'rule' has to be created in order for everyone to feel comfortable and to know that they are socially savvy. When the 'rule' doesn't make sense or won't work in every situation, then it isn't a good, workable rule--such as hosting more than one wedding. Etiquette is logical and fair.
Of course what you do, and you have already stated that you plan to host at least one more wedding, is your choice. Perhaps your friends don't care about what is viewed socially acceptable, but some people may. So, be prepared for a few negative remarks.
And, please no showers or bachelorette parties. These are only for brides and most likely will turn a few heads.
Re: [Et.byRebecca] Civil ceremony in Germany, religious in USA
[In reply to]
Thanks for your very detailed response!
I will have to disagree with your reasoning for why you say it is tacky. We are from the mid-west. I guess we don't think that this is tacky.
I know I asked the question, so I have to accept whatever answer was given. Are there ever any circumstances when it is appropriate to do what I (and many others I know) am doing?
I have no pictures of the German wedding because it was really only a signing of documents. I had no wedding dress, no cake, no vows, no nothing in Germany. Only my parents were there from the US.
There have been 2 other occasions in my family over the last 5 years where they had a civil wedding (1 because she was being deployed to Iraq; the other because she married a Canadian man in Canada first) and then a full-blown wedding later on.
I have a rather small family who are rather close-knit, and no one complained about our idea. They know that my dream was always to have a white wedding and so they are all very supportive. They even said they would postpone giving us a gift until the US wedding.
My husband was married to a Japanese woman before me and also had the 2 weddings. It's a real shame that it is only here in the US that this is viewed as tacky.
Anyway, I agree with the idea about a bachelorette party--that would be very tacky. But I know that my family is having a bridal shower for me because I never had one in Germany.
Na ja. Maybe I should divorce and then remarry him??? Then there would be no problems. I'll talk it over with him.
The funny thing is that my marriage is not recognized here in the US. (On the W-4 form, question 3, it states that "If married, but spouse is non-resident alien, check "SINGLE") It would only be recognized if we decided to live here and I needed to get my husband a green card. So, maybe this means that I'm not married?
I know I sound rather defensive. I apologize! I appreciate you taking the time out to write such a detailed answer. It is your professional opinion, and while I disagree with it, it is very interesting to hear another point of view. Funny that none of the vendors are having a hard time with it! At any rate, everything has already been arranged, and it would be financially impossible to cancel.
Thank you!
Etiquette Now
WEDDING ETIQUETTE EXPERT
Nov 25, 2006, 5:21 PM
Post #4 of 10
(988 views)
Re: [crm923] Civil ceremony in Germany, religious in USA
[In reply to]
Vendors wouldn't have a difficult time with this because they are making money from the event. Beware of those with something to gain.
This isn't just my opinion. It is written in all etiquette books. But, as in all things, you have to do what is best for you. Rebecca Black, Etiquette Now
TWQadmin
FORUM EXPERT
/ Moderator
Nov 25, 2006, 8:09 PM
Post #5 of 10
(980 views)
Re: [crm923] Civil ceremony in Germany, religious in USA
[In reply to]
You said that your friends and family here in the states are excited to see you get married but I'm confused. You already exchanged vows and are married, so, they really missed you getting married. It's really a one time deal. I would be more confused to receive a wedding invitation for a couple I knew were already married.
Still, you can certainly have a reception back in the states even up to a year after your civil ceremony.
Perhaps a better scenario would be for you to have a blessing of your marriage (a bit of a different ceremony) in your place of worship and then have a reception afterwards. This may be your best option since you're not repeating (and diluting) your wedding ceremony and then you can celebrate with your loved ones. Seems like a plan that would suit everyone. Discuss these options with your clergy member and, as Rebecca mentioned, try not to take the advice of those who may be more interested in padding their pocketbooks than to give you good, solid direction. Top Wedding Questions Forum Moderator - "Write your sorrows in the sand, your blessings in stone".
crm923
Nov 25, 2006, 10:35 PM
Post #6 of 10
(972 views)
Re: [TWQadmin] Civil ceremony in Germany, religious in USA
[In reply to]
Hi again,
I am actually getting extremely depressed by this discussion now. I never even thought that this was a problem as I never had the white dress, cake, colors, pictures, gifts, congrats, etc.
It's stressful enough to try to coordinate all of this from abroad (I'm now in the US until after New Year's when we move to Australia). Now I find out that what we're planning is practically illegal in the US!! My blood pressure has shot through the roof now!
Ok, maybe I should have been more correct with semantics/jargon. We are having a blessing of the marriage ceremony. We will not exchange rings--rather we'll get them blessed. We will write our renewal vows to each other. Other than that, things will be very similar to what a "normal" wedding ceremony looks like--white dress, attendants, flowers, music, photographer. We are also having a reception with a DJ and caterer. We will not do the garter toss, but I may do the bouquet toss--not sure yet. We will do a "first dance" but not the "father and bride" one.
Whatever we do here will never be a repeat of what happened in Germany--it was in German with German rules! No one who was invited to the German wedding will be invited to the US ceremony and vice versa (except our parents).
I would never be able to live with myself without having the day I have dreamed of since I was a little girl--along with the memories/pictures. Yes, I am being selfish. Because I do not live in the US, we had to abide by GERMAN rules. So I am being punished because I don't live in this country. *sigh* I don't understand why this is so difficult for Americans to accept. The rules are much more relaxed in Germany and Poland (where I lived for 6 years).
It doesn't really matter. Aside from my family, who is completely supportive of my having the dream day I never had and are paying for a great portion of it, most of my friends/acquaintances are from other countries or like me--very globally minded.
We are also an older couple--I'm 34 and my husband is 39. We are not naive about the vendors. I was only being a slight bit facetious. Vendors are ruthless!!! I've gotten pretty good at fending the offending ones off.
I came across this site searching for more info on how to prepare this day. Believe me the huge shock I had when I found out that what I am doing is almost against the law here!
I will still use the rest of these forums to help prepare for the "blessing of the marriage.
Thanks for all the other information. Don't worry. I won't be bothering you with this question anymore.
Chris
BTW, there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rules. I think all of those war brides should be allowed to go ALL OUT after their one-and-onlies return from duty. They especially deserve it!
TWQadmin
FORUM EXPERT
/ Moderator
Nov 26, 2006, 7:27 AM
Post #7 of 10
(964 views)
Re: [crm923] Civil ceremony in Germany, religious in USA
[In reply to]
You came to the site asking for etiquette advice which is what you received. If you have already had a wedding ceremony then technically you have had your wedding. If you are planning a religious ceremony such as a blessing of your marriage then, as previously stated, there will be aspects of a wedding that won't seem quite right since you have been married and are already living as a married couple. Please read more about wedding vow renewal etiquette) As Rebecca suggested, if you're comfortable with your plans then go for it. No one will stop you. No one said anything about your plans being against the law. We're simply stating what is considered to be socially acceptable as per the most recent writings of wedding etiquette experts. We don't make this stuff up, folks! Top Wedding Questions Forum Moderator - "Write your sorrows in the sand, your blessings in stone".
crm923
Nov 26, 2006, 10:04 AM
Post #8 of 10
(958 views)
Re: [TWQadmin] Civil ceremony in Germany, religious in USA
[In reply to]
I stated above that our ceremony will be a "blessing of the marriage" wedding and WILL NOT BE ANOTHER WEDDING.
Yes, I acknowledged that this is an etiquette site and that I should take it to be true. I keep writing because there may be others out there who are in the same situation as me.
BUT, the law in my county states that BOTH people must have social security numbers in order to be married legally. IT WAS AGAINST THE LAW FOR MY THEN FIANCE TO HAVE MARRIED ME IN THE U.S. IN THE FIRST PLACE! We plan to live outside of the US forever--next stop Australia.
The etiquette books are written for Americans about Americans. They don't have any provisions for this global world that we live in.
If any of them discuss our specific situation, please let me know so I can read it for myself. I highly doubt that ANY of them discuss what happens when one of the members of the bridal party cannot legally get a SS# and therefore is forbidden to marry in my county in the US.
Thanks for your help in any case.
TWQadmin
FORUM EXPERT
/ Moderator
Nov 26, 2006, 11:14 AM
Post #9 of 10
(955 views)
Re: [crm923] Civil ceremony in Germany, religious in USA
[In reply to]
If your spouse cannot marry legally in the US then the blessing of the marriage is one way to go. Another way would have been to have the wedding in your finace's country and invite your US relatives or simply have a wedding reception in the state after the ceremony in Germany. There are many options, but, once you exchange your vows, you are married.
If you are having a blessing of your marriage then I don't see reason for argument. Simply follow the etiquette provided for that sort of ceremony. Again, etiquette is not an exact science. There cannot be a book listing each and every scenario. You can read what is provided and try to adapt it to your situation. If it makes sense, then it's probably proper. If it seems odd (having a bachelor party to celebrate the last night of freedom when the couple has already been living together as husband and wife doesn't seem quite right) then perhaps you need to re-think that event. No hard and fast rules, just common sense and courtesy towards your guest to ensure the comfort of all parties. Top Wedding Questions Forum Moderator - "Write your sorrows in the sand, your blessings in stone".
Etiquette Now
WEDDING ETIQUETTE EXPERT
Nov 26, 2006, 3:44 PM
Post #10 of 10
(939 views)
Re: [crm923] Civil ceremony in Germany, religious in USA
[In reply to]
I completely agree--very good ideas.
Plus one thing that all of us may want to consider... we are talking about the etiquette followed here, not in another country. So, we should consider what is considered appropriate for this populace. When we are in another country, it is polite and appropriate to consider the etiquette in that country.
And, as for 'war brides' I'm from the Vietnam era. We did not have a 'white wedding' after our civil ceremonies. It didn't make any sense then either. We did, however, have one huge party to celebrate our weddings and our loved ones' safe return. Rebecca Black, Etiquette Now
Civil ceremony in Germany, religious in USA
, but I am having my full-blown "white wedding" in the US a year after being married in a civil ceremony in Germany. 
At any rate, everything has already been arranged, and it would be financially impossible to cancel. 
